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would you say winny does the same thing and its half the price? Or is anavar more effective? And if you were only gonna do one of these by itself would you need to have PCT or is it not needed? And last i remember in one of my other post scrop saying that with orals your results you dont retain as much if you were to throw in some test. Why is it with orals you dont retain your gains after the cycle?

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read the profiles bro.

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Winny is the devil, Var is bend me over prices.

Get the best of all worlds with Tren

Pudgy, your avatar is scrumptious

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ive read the profiles but and they seem to be about the same in what they do but just alot cheaper to do winny.... but why do people say you dont keep gains when doin only oral cycles?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by persianprince
would you say winny does the same thing and its half the price? Or is anavar more effective? And if you were only gonna do one of these by itself would you need to have PCT or is it not needed? And last i remember in one of my other post scrop saying that with orals your results you dont retain as much if you were to throw in some test. Why is it with orals you dont retain your gains after the cycle?

---

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What is your goal man, what sport,

youve got to be a little more specific and we can better suggest a suppliment

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Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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Why is winny the devil man?????

Its good if you stack it with other significant others?

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Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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thanks for the reply Bio.... not for me just but one of my buddies and was just weighing out the two. He just wants to lean up and preserve muscle he feels he is a good size so no wants to focus on loosing bodyfat. This would be his first cycle and i told him he should use test as a base no matter if he is bulking or cutting but i guess he is avoiding needles. But ive been reading that oral only cycles are only temporary gains and im trying to find out why that is? Because if thats the case ill make sure he doesnt run it without test.

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oral arent nessesaraly temp gain only, that is if done correctly.
IE: D-bol only if run long enough with an anti E will provide good lasting gains, but normally most whont run it longer than 6wks with isent enough for the anabolic effect to reallty kick in.

Winnie is very simelar, only there its the hardening effect that only last temp when run shortly. however winnie IMO is only temp gains!

Var however will yeaild lasting gains.

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"avoiding needles".... ive heard that before, if hes really into this stuff he will have to change his mind.

Test would make a good base, yes.

Now i don't know were you read that only oral cycles don't stick, don't keep gains...... it is totally dependant upon what the roid is man

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Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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Why do you thing, that for most waisting dececes medical doctors most ofen times ONLY prescribe orals .....yes thats right becuse they are effective and can stick....

var sticks more than most, in fact vars gains stick more than tren

hmm let me see if i have a chart at my disposal

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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quote:

---

Originally posted by BioChem55
Now i don't know were you read that only oral cycles don't stick, don't keep gains...... it is totally dependant upon what the roid is man

---

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sorry man the one i have is not accecable to me right now but here go here they have a pretty accurate ranking system as far as, what is good at keeping gains.........remeber i am not telling you in anway to order from here...... just use there ranking chart

[EDITED by ChemE] Sorry man but that against board rules even if it was only posted to show a chart!

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

Last edited by Chemical Evolution on 01-07-2004 at 11:12 PM

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thanks.... read the chart it seems that winny is just as high on the list as anavar in keeping gains. But dbol didnt seem to have a high rank for retaining gains. What is the big difference my friend is getting when running test with winny or anavar? Does the test just enhance there effect to a higher degree?

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you are the man chem eve, i like this very good, it was like a one two punch with powerful information.........

you know your stuff my man

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"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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quote:

---

Originally posted by persianprince
thanks.... read the chart it seems that winny is just as high on the list as anavar in keeping gains. But dbol didnt seem to have a high rank for retaining gains. What is the big difference my friend is getting when running test with winny or anavar? Does the test just enhance there effect to a higher degree?

---

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The test will enhance the effect, put that is a missprint on the chart my man sorry, chem eve is right, WINNY does NOT yeild lasting gains......

var will yeild more lasting gains for him due to the hydrole group spliced on at the end of the mol compound,

He wil get more strength and muscle that stays with var, of course he will have to pay more unfortunatly specially if its black market

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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quote:

---

Originally posted by BioChem55
you are the man chem eve, i like this very good, it was like a one two punch with powerful information.........

you know your stuff my man

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Chemical Evolution
If you wanna do d-bol with more lasting gains you have to run it longer about 8wks+ Remember to run anti E's and ALA Milk thidsel etc for your livers sake!

---

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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ohh shit, sorry............

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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good point chem... even though this isnt for me i like asking the questions cuz this is the best way to learn. I appreciate all your guys help becuase i know sometimes i ask to many questions lol but i apprecaite it man chem and bio you guys know your stuff!

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yeh man, remeber if he goes with the var, remeber its an 17 alkaly, i would not go over 40mg's a day or risk some serious liver problems

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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ive been reading up on var and it seems that you need to run it for a good amount of time ive seen up to 12-15weeks... that seems like a long ass time to be on orals

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NO NO man NO, No you have missread,

Keep the punches short and sweet!

4 weeks max six and why you ask well ............


RECEPTOR CITE BURN OUT QUICKLY with Oxandrolone, meaning they shut down long cycles ARE pointless

Keep it short and sweet, get the most Bang for you buck,

If hes a big guy, and health ok maybe he could go up to 50mg BUT NO MORE,

i recomend 4 week cycle start at low work your way up to 40 or 50 and then bring it down when you come off don't forget about that, coming down soft is significant

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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with winny, yes cycles can be alot longer...........

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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so why does everyone suggest adding test as the base? what does the test do that helps the anavar or winny out so much?

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ok here is how it goes, people suggest test, for serveral reasons,


It seems like your friend is looking for a moderate to heavy anabolic, light anrogenic cycle right? OK

Test is an extreme anabolic, light androgenic lets keep in mind

Now it dons't react with the var, or winny directly, but yes, two anabolics combined with each other will have a synergistic effect,......

you would get more out the cycle if you added the test as a base, you see you can't just up the var or winny to a rediculous dose,

lets say you did 50mg of var a day and you wanted more mass and strengh, you bumped it up to 100mg a day despite your liver getting torn up, you wouldn't neccisarily get more out of the additional 50mg you see,

but if you took 50mg of var, and added say some test per week, you would get all the effect from the test plus the var where as if you just used more of the one you wound't necisarilly get anything out of it

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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that cleared things up... thanks. But would about if you just doubled up on something like eq and anavar ? i mean does it have to be test as the base? or is test the main drug that helps in combination with another

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no its does not have to be test as a base,

... yes test is a drug that works well with most anything.... that is why it was recomended...

it is more versitile thank eq, test can be used in almost and stack......

but in this particular stack yes eq would work well for him, becuse it does combine well with var if he so decides to go with var

So if you wondering weather to get test or get eq now, i would suggest going with the one that is most avalible to you and you could get the most amount for the best price.

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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sorry about that bio i empty out my pm box

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ok, man im sorry i just wrote a 20 min. pm and it didn't go through, i have got to go.........

I will get back to you tommarow man sorry, i have to go its important.........

Ive got lots of info for you though if you want it........
advice personal info and all that,

Ill pm you tommarow,

BioChem

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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soounds good man i cant wait! thanks again for all your help... you to chem

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Winny is very weak. I've used a couple kinds and didn't find the effect I was remotely looking for untill 100mgED

The strength gains are minimal, it really offers no weght gains, and the vascularity is minimal when compared to other choices. It dries the joints(mine to injury), and no other AS causes hair loss like it. Of course, this is all individualistic.

But, I say; Get all the effects of winny + strength, vascularity, and fat burning from raises in IGF and protstaglandins from tren. It's less than half the price for a much better addition

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I agree with pheedno, winny is a last resort!
Tren+prop+masteron ...20 days out drop the prop add the halo, if you are feeling lucky!!
P

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thanks for your response Prat & Phee.... but i have to honestly say i havent seen anyone put down winny like you did phee. Ive mostly heard nothing but great things about it. But like you said it all depends on the person.

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gyno, hairloss, acne. ect..... only ones i can think of but im sure others can chime in and put more

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i dont think ive ever heard of anyone getting gyno from anythign like var.... but my guess is that if your very prone to something like gyno it can happen alot easier then for example someonelse to its a good thing to have some anti-e's layin around. And same goes for hair loss if your prone to having MPB then all it does is speed up the process of what is gonna happen sooner or later. But it doesnt just make you bald.

p.s. im still natural myself but doing alot of research tryign to learn. if im wrong feel free to correct me but i think im right lol

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one good thing about var is its sides almost none and is one of the most safest, and less androgenic. Its safe for women, without all the sides as well. I know someone who was placed on it long term for an immune issue(it was never specified) and have been told that a positive attribute is that its helps boost the immune system.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by crazychemist
one good thing about var is its sides almost none and is one of the most safest, and less androgenic. Its safe for women, without all the sides as well. I know someone who was placed on it long term for an immune issue(it was never specified) and have been told that a positive attribute is that its helps boost the immune system.

---

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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quote:

---

Originally posted by persianprince
i dont think ive ever heard of anyone getting gyno from anythign like var.... but my guess is that if your very prone to something like gyno it can happen alot easier then for example someonelse to its a good thing to have some anti-e's layin around. And same goes for hair loss if your prone to having MPB then all it does is speed up the process of what is gonna happen sooner or later. But it doesnt just make you bald.

p.s. im still natural myself but doing alot of research tryign to learn. if im wrong feel free to correct me but i think im right lol

---

__________________
"Be good or be good at it."
Thats too much..."Double it!"
"SUPER-ACID"
fluoantimonic acid
(2 HF + SbF5 -- probably H2F(+)SbF6(-) )
PH=15.2
Note- "Physics is one big 'fudge factor'. "
“Albert Einstein was highly overrated, Linus Pauling is of course , the smartest man to ever live, and I’m a direct descendent”
"I will only eat my vegetables, if Robert Loggia tells me to."

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